As people, we forget that struggle is actually essential in life, and it is required if you’re following Jesus. Luke Smallbone
Luke Smallbone talks with Erica about their upcoming movie based on his family’s story, Unsung Hero. The film shares their family struggles and tragedies, with a message of family, faith, and forgiveness.
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TRANSCRIPTION:
Erica:
Oh, well, I’m delighted to be talking with you, Luke. You’ve got a movie coming out.
Luke Smallbone:
We do! It sounds like a little bit of a crazy statement, right? You don’t hear that very often.
Erica:
Yeah. I mean, how exciting is it to eat popcorn and milk duds at a movie about your own family?
Luke Smallbone:
Oh, I may not pick the milk duds. That’s the only positive of that story that I might not, it’s funny to say, it’s probably more nerve wracking than anything when it comes to a film about your own family’s struggles. It’s not like we’re sitting there going, “Look at our family. We just did some amazing things.” In some cases, we’re exposing heartache and tragedy to the world, but we’re on it to do it.
Erica:
Okay. Well, before we dive into this amazing movie, I have to know what is the snack that goes with your popcorn?
Luke Smallbone:
Oh, man. You know what… Probably, have you ever had ice cream like Wendy’s, like a frosty and fries? I got the cream and the salt. So if I’m going to do popcorn that is inherently salty, I’m probably going to do something a little bit sweet in the regards to probably chocolatey, so maybe peanut M&M’s, something like that. It makes me feel like I’m having a vegetable or something healthy that’s covered in chocolate, so that’s probably what I’m going to go with.
Erica:
That is so awesome. One of the main themes of this movie is actually a quote from Mother Teresa. I loved that you were talking about this on Instagram, Luke. “If you want to change the world, go home and love your family.” What does that look like?
Luke Smallbone:
Oh, man. Well, first and foremost, I think that we overcomplicate two things. I think sometimes we overcomplicate following Jesus. Now it’s crazy because you sit there and you go, how is it not complicated? He wants our life, and it’s like, yeah, that’s right. He wants your life. A lot of times it’s not all these other little things. A lot of times it’s developing the habits that are looking like waking up in the morning and saying, Hey, God, I’ve got this planned agenda of the day. Take it, use it. Use it for your glory, and amazing things take place when we pray those prayers.
Erica:
Yes.
Luke Smallbone:
But when it comes to loving our family, I’ve realized something about having four kids and myself, we always say quality over quantity, right? If you want to be a great father, reverse it. It’s quantity over quality because you only can have quality time as a family when you’ve got a lot of it. And I think that the epidemic that we struggle with today is I think it’s a lot of us men actually, we don’t know how to be present with our families. We don’t know how to be good fathers, and so my hope is that we get back to just realizing that we overcomplicate family as well. Sometimes, I’m not a big screens guy, but man, you’d be amazed what conversations come up if you just sit down, even just simply watch something with your kids.
It’s an incredible thing. So my hope is that people will walk away from this film and say, Hey, I want to be a better dad. I want to be a better mom. I want to be a better brother and sister. We’re all in a family. Even if we’re at college, those roommates, they’re pretending like they’re family for a while. We’re all a part of something and we all contribute to it.
Erica:
Oh, I love that. You were blessed with a wonderful mother and father, but not perfect parents. So how did they live out their faith in your home? What did you see, Luke, that sometimes maybe you think about now when you’re raising your kids?
Luke Smallbone:
Yeah, I’ve heard it said that if you want people to, if you’re a Christian household and you’re wrestling with, Hey, how do I pass this onto my kids? I’ve always heard that it’s said that if you want your kids to follow in your footstep, that just got to see evidence that Jesus is real in your marriage and in your parenting and in your life. And so I think for me, what I saw is I saw the gift and the power, the gift of seeing my parents actually work through those things, that they actually prayed for things that they actually saw God do things, that they saw miracles take place, I think. And I also saw them fail and then forgive each other.
Erica:
Yes.
Luke Smallbone:
I think that’s the thing that if I had, one thing that I could have my immediate family now be known for is that we practice forgiveness. If we could do that, I think if families could do that as a whole, we’d be trending in a much different direction.
Erica:
Luke, this whole movie, your family story is about faith, stepping out when things were really scary. When somebody leaves the theater, how do you want them to live differently once they see this story?
Luke Smallbone:
Man, I hope that people walk away and they stop to see their family… I hope they see themselves in the family is what I hope. I hope that they actually stop to go, oh yeah, my parents are actually… The truth is, if we’re being really real. If you’re a parent out there, you’re going to hurt your kids. It’s guaranteed. I mean, they could all be in therapy for anything. You can be the best parent in the world. There’s still going to be things that happen, but versus building up the shame of that, start to recognize, okay, man, I’ve made mistakes, but how do I actually move forward in the way that I’m raising my kids? And I think a lot of that has to do with also just seeing… my hope is people look at this film and they say, man, I’ve been like the father in that film before.
Or a mother saying, oh man, I’m looking at a mother who’s done all the same things as me and is doing the same thing, and it actually matters. Or your daughter, and you’re seeing yourself in my sister in that film who’s trying to find her place in this world. And you go, I know what it feels like to maybe have some talents that are budding but not know who I am and how do I actually forge ahead, or being maybe a son and you’re trying to figure out who am I going to be when all this is done? Am I going to college after this? Am I starting my own business? My hope is that they see people like themselves in this film and they feel encouraged and they feel seen and hopefully not just inspired because you’re so inspired around a lot inspiration usually wane. If you go to see a film and you’re inspired, usually it’s like, well, I was inspired for two seconds and I went back to my old household. No, I hope that people leave with these stories and when the inspiration wanes they go, but I remember that story and that story is a lot like my story, and I still have hope and I still have purpose in it.
Erica:
That is beautiful. How weird is it for you to have your brother, Joel, playing your dad in this movie?
Luke Smallbone:
I think that we were all probably a little concerned about it at first. Can he actually do it? But the truth is, my dad and my brother Joel are virtually the same people. They’re just, my dad had six kids by 40 and Joel doesn’t have any. Oh my. So they’re very different because of that. That will change you, but at the same time, they’re basically the same people. And so I think that my greatest compliment to him was I eventually got to a point where I forgot that it was him as my brother. There’s been other movies where I’ve seen him in, I’m like, oh, there’s my brother. Oh, this is a little, and this one, I think he got to a point where it was like, man, he’s actually, he’s doing this. He’s not my brother in this moment.
Erica:
Wow. What is your favorite story that you have? As all of your siblings together… Is there a story that you all love to tell about your family?
Luke Smallbone:
Oh man. I don’t know if there’s just a favorite story. I think that what I would say, if someone was to say, tell me something about your family that is unique, I would say this. When we first came to America, we joke around that we did all the jobs that Americans don’t like to do. We mowed lawns, we raked leaves, and we cleaned houses. And a lot of people are like, well, that has to be really challenging. And I say, well, struggle always produces something. It’s guaranteed. It produces perseverance, it produces character, and it ultimately ends with hope. And we as people forget that struggle is actually essential in life and it is required if you’re following Jesus. Man, if you’re at a point and you’re living a life that requires no courage, you might not be living life correctly because life is filled with obstacles.
Life is filled with things. And for us, my family got the gift of that when we first came to America and look, it was not something I want to go through again per se, but we got the gift of it in that we bought, we really got real close together. We’re a close-knit family. And if you want closeness, if you want intimacy, if you want intimacy with a spouse, with a family member, a family as a whole, you don’t usually find it through going through just simple everyday things. You find it going through struggle. You find it when overcome conflict. You find it when things get messy and you sort it out. You’re closer to that person because of it.
Erica:
The family who sweats and prays together stays together.
Luke Smallbone:
Yeah, that’s basically right. That’s exactly right. That’s right.
Erica:
Luke, my final question for you, and I always appreciate your time so much, is how did your family’s faith become your own faith?
Luke Smallbone:
I think it did because I saw that it was real. I saw that it was like, this is not something that is fabricated. This is not something that is just like, I hope this to be true. It sounds idyllic, but I don’t know. I wasn’t left with, I don’t know. I was left with people and parents telling stories of changed lives and then actually seeing it. I’m going to read to you, there’s a Chuck Colson quote that I just read that I thought was absolutely fascinating. He says this, and this is what I just saw demonstrated with my family. He’s obviously using a different thing. He says, I know the resurrection is a fact. And Watergate, obviously, Chuck Colson was a guy who was one of Richard Nixon’s close associates during the Watergate scandal, He said, I know the resurrection is a fact. And Watergate proved it to me. How? Because 12 men testified they had seen Jesus rise from the dead. Then they proclaimed that truth for 40 years, never once denying it. Everyone was beaten, tortured, stoned, and put in prison. They would not have endured that if it weren’t true. Watergate embroiled 12 of the most powerful men in the world, and they couldn’t keep alive for three weeks. You’re telling me 12 apostles could keep alive for 40 years? Absolutely impossible. I similarly have a family and parents that went through struggle, went through hardship, went through very difficult things, and we came out the other side with great care and love for each other. So if you’re telling me, if you don’t think Jesus is real or possible or tangible, I would say that’s absolutely impossible, not with the life that I’ve lived.
Erica:
Mic drop right there. Luke, so appreciate you. Before I let you go, I’m always going to tell you, I always will remember you taking time to talk to my son who has ulcerative colitis, and you spent 11 minutes with him once just encouraging him, and we moved over the weekend. And you know what? One of the first things he’s hanging on his wall is an autographed picture that you gave him. So, thank you for being you. We so appreciate you.
Luke Smallbone:
Thank you. I remember that very, very fondly. You’ve always been a dear friend to me and my family, and thank you. Thank you for always being so kind and compassionate, and it’s a wonderful thing to be able to have these conversations together.
Erica:
God bless you. Thank you for that. And I can’t wait to see the movie.
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